New Appeal Request Rule

I disagree, I think you're holding a bias against staff when I can say first hand they really do try their best. I've been in calls with staff countless amount of times and they're constantly under huge pressure from not only the community, but other staff. And I can 100% promise you when staff do something wrong they're pulled on it, this all happens behind the scenes so I guess a lot of people don't realize. I just think it's unfair to say that staff have a hard time admitting when they're wrong, cause I'm sure that pretty much every staff member currently on the team will put their hands up and admit when they've made a mistake. I think the appeal system is fine as it is, no-one knows why someone was punished or how the situation was more than the staff member who handed out the punishment. I believe the current system is fair, and I know for sure that staff sometimes accept appeals from people who admit to their mistakes and want a second chance.

 

Yeah... I'm totally biased against all staff members. In fact, here's another person who is "biased" against staff members.

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And here's some proof of my own "bias".

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There are plenty more, but I've pretty much forgotten them entirely because they aren't worth remembering.

Like I said, MOST staff, not ALL. There are a lot of staff that I know very well, and a few that I'm even friends with. But it should be very obvious to anyone that the staff team has become polluted with these power hungry children who just want to be above others.

Being staff isn't as hard as these people make it out to be. Not trying to be rude to them or anything, but most of these claims have no base behind them and are just desperate cries for sympathy. I can partially understand for Sr. Mod+, but the job is in no way difficult for anyone below that. Literally all your job is is to mute/ban players, and keep evidence of those punishments (except some cases for Mod where they don't need to). And if you applied for a sub-team, then those responsibilities too. And meet the monthly minute requirements, which is in no way difficult. The only reason you should ever be overwhelmed is if you made the conscious choice to take on too much work. And there is an easy solution to that; Know your limits. If you can't handle being staff, then why the hell are you applying for it in the first place.

As for pressure from other staff, you should only feel pressure from them when you did something wrong and you were either caught for it or you're anxious that you will be. If you did nothing wrong, you should have nothing to be paranoid about.

First off; no, they aren't pulled for it. That's the entire issue with the staff team. They go by a "guilty until proven innocent" mindset, which means it is up to the player to prove that the punishment was false. Literally any mod+ could go on right now and ban anyone for Speed, and there is literally nothing they would be able to do about it. You didn't record or were offline? Too bad, you're screwed. Even if you DID record, they can simply argue that it was from a time before that.

Second, I say that some staff can't admit when they're wrong because it's true. And if you want evidence, go check the 6 examples in my quotes above. That is the next big issue with the staff, they're too prideful. These staff will do pretty much anything to save their reputation, even keep a punishment that THEY KNOW is false. So you can't argue that they don't issue false punishments, especially from a player's perspective. Unless you can personally SEE valid evidence for every punishment they make, you have no right to defend them. If the issue is with staff lying, then why are you trying to prove their innocence with what they say to you.

Easy solution, require all staff to have evidence for their punishments. They could even have a staff panel where they can store evidence for punishments, so staff can't use low storage space on their PC as an excuse. Then the Disputes Team can easily fetch evidence from there so they know the situation.

Simply saying it should be like this because the staff who punished them knows the situation best just opens it up to all the issues I mentioned above. Especially biased opinions. Even if they don't realize it, they can be unconsciously biased, meaning their opinion on the situation is influenced by their own beliefs and opinions even if they don't realize it. And that's not their fault, that's just how humans are wired. If someone completely unrelated to the situation is handling the punishment after getting only the evidence on what they were punished for, they will offer much more fair judgement.

 

I see where you're coming from in your response in every point you've made, except the one I've just quoted. I've sometimes been in Skywars lobbies with 5-6 people bhopping/flying at a time. Do you know how much of a pain it would be for staff to get evidence for everyone single one of those? Just for them to come back on an alt/VPN in 10 seconds and do the same thing. I think the current system is perfect, evidence is needed for Killaura, Anti-KB and Crits, and not needed for much more blatant hacks such as Fly, Bhop, Scaffold etc. Thank you for having a civil conversation about the situation though, I see where you're coming from but I stick by my opinion.

 

Yes they do need to record for a select few hacks, but that still means you can get falsely punished for just about anything else. This is actually why I used speed as my example for getting banned, since they don't need to record for it. Hence I would need to somehow prove that I wasn't.

I'm not trying to be rude, but the fact that you mentioned the system being perfect, immediately after saying 6 bhop/flyers come back on alts within seconds, is beyond stupid. Yes it isn't the staff's fault that the anticheat/anti alt systems suck, but this should not stop them from keeping evidence. Helpers are already required to keep evidence for all punishments, it would not be hard to implement this for Moderators+ as well. When you encounter someone breaking the rules, you make evidence then ban them. Really not difficult. Even if there is 6+ people it isn't that hard to make 6 short clips of each individual cheating.

 

Why would a staff choose to lie and risk their position by falsely banning someone for Bhop, when it can easily be determined if said player was using it or not? When I mentioned the system being perfect, I did not under any circumstances mean the anti-cheat. I've stood by my opinion on the anti-cheat, that it's all and all useless and doesn't provide any help to the server. As for anti-alt systems, they have an anti-vpn in place, but not all VPN's or proxies are detected by it. Mods+ want to ban players using blatant hacks quick, they don't want players on the server having to wait while they open a recording software, get sufficient evidence, etc. It's just easier for them not to have evidence for such hacks.

 

I believed evidence was required for all witness bans? If that policy was changed I'm really unsure as to why as staff have absolutely abused in the past before, and that lack of accountability means that they do not have to correct their mistake (or get called out for their abuse assuming it was deliberate) in those cases, which I am certain leaves a horrible impression for the server. In fact, if I got a cheating ban before I had any investment or any real investment into MCC I most definitely would have packed my bags and I'm sure many others would say the same, so if that is no longer a requirement I think it should be changed. I'd like to direct everyone to one of the helper requirements being "the ability to record in-game", in fact the exact quote: "Must be able to record in-game if needed", and a helper does not even have that power so why should the people with the actual power to do something w/ that (more than a normal player anyways) not have the same accountability?

I do have a major disagreement with the OP of this thread as (like many have already stated) this basically gives cheaters immunity to punishment if I interpreted it right, and abuse cases already often get brought to other staff so if that is the case then it can be forwarded by that point. However, I am of the belief that if a staff is to punish they must have ample proof that the offense happened, and punishment of players for cheating is no different. A storage issue does not exist when you can upload the video and delete your recordings (on your disk) afterward as I do, and, more importantly, if you don't want to record a cheater or you may not be able to pull out the recording in time, you (assuming the you here is a mod) can simply freeze them and collect a quick ban / logout if they are blatant (either suffice although the latter will basically always happen in a blatant situation), and that right there is your ample evidence (although they should nearly always be able to record in-game if needed as per the helper requirement!). *Before I get a type of reply about how the minigames system is a nightmare for staffing, I have already discussed somewhere that there should be spectating menus for these games so mods can actually do something about the cheaters quickly and effectively (as well as a /report feature but that is a separate and global issue), and a bright idea I saw when discussing this very topic regarding how a screenshare disrupts minigames would be to take you and frozen player to a lobby after you freeze them (my suggestion would actually be to take it to a certain section of a random lobby so they are not in the spawn stack of players if there is one), and then also not count the minigame towards their stats so a legitimate player would not be disgruntled about the forced loss.

Apologies if I am repeating talking points that were already said or I misrepresented any talking points, or if I am just not even on the right topic but it is what I felt it was based on my glance of the replies on this page and these are my thoughts about it!

*An edit to address some things after reading over more:
I agree with one of the posts on page 1 that the staff who punished will know better than anyone else, but again I believe they must have proof of all of it. If they don't, then that should be brought up to other staff (same with if they do not believe the evidence is valid)

A revision to my initial freeze suggestion: It should take the players frozen to the same lobby / area but not you, this is so that if there are multiple cheaters in a single game as mentioned above they can all be frozen if they were not recorded, this of course is contingent on all of them logging but an SS on a client user will take about 20 seconds if they actually commit to opening the desk, you could also record some of them or of course all and not worry about this. Afterwards a clickable word or message in your chat box to take you to frozen player(s) would be preferable.(Also bind a game to a lobby so the players will not be spread across different lobbies)

 

No idea, that's above me. They can just be unwilling to admit they were wrong, or just have a personal vendetta against someone or a group of people. Maybe they just enjoy the momentary thrill. Honestly got no idea why they would do it, if we knew why they did it then we would already know how to avoid this problem.

I brought up the anticheat as more of an example as to why the staff themselves aren't entirely at fault for the surplus of hackers. Though this doesn't mean they shouldn't be recording every punishment they make.

Pretty much every single recording software nowadays is made to run in the background. No one should for any reason be using such primitive recording equipment. And there is also multiple programs for both mac and windows that have an "instant replay" feature, which makes a clip of the last x seconds by just hitting a button. If you see a hacker, all you need to do is hit one button to record it, type in "/punish username reason", select the offence & severity, and presto. Not difficult.